The Hole Truth: Brennon’s Coming Out

Matt: 00:00:00

Welcome to Story Hole. Loads of gay stories. And when I say loads, I mean the kind you don't just mop up with a towel or just leave there.

The kind you remember, the kind you regret, the kind you brag about later at brunch. Think of this show like a glory hole for stories you never quite know what's about to slide through.

Could be messy, could be magical, could be both in the same five minutes. But. But whatever comes, we take it raw. No filters, no pretending it didn't happen. Because here's the Gay men have always had stories.

We just weren't supposed to tell them out loud. They were whispered in locker rooms, confessed in back seats, shouted over baselines at the club. But here they get their moment in the light.

Funny, filthy, heartbreaking. Sometimes all at once. Every week, one man steps up to the hole, figuratively, of course, and lets it spill.

I just add the music, some narration, and maybe a little lube to keep things moving until it comes. And for our very first episode today of Story Hole, we start with Brennon. Him and I actually went to the same Utah high school together.

Same class, same hallways, but we never spoke. Didn't even know each other. But now we do, and I realized I really didn't know him at all. This is Brennon's story.

Brennon: 00:01:38

My name is Brennon, he him, and I'm gay. So I grew up in Utah, grew up in Sandy.

Matt: 00:01:45

Sandy is a little suburb of Salt Lake City.

And fun fact, Brennon and I went to high school together, and we were in the same class of about 750 students, yet we never once interacted with each other. I knew who he was, though. I knew who everybody was.

So, much to my surprise, I see his face on Grindr 20 years later, and I'm like, hey, I know you, but do I? Well, better late than never to get to know him.

Brennon: 00:02:11

I grew up lds, went on a mission, did all that stuff, knew I was gay when I was 10. Titanic was my sexual awakening.

Matt: 00:02:21

Yeah, cruise ship hitting Titanic. Great movie, actually. I think I know where he is going with this, though. And I mean, I know Selene loves the gays and the gays love Selene.

This was like prime Celine era for people.

Brennon: 00:02:36

I tell people my sister was obsessed with Leonardo DiCaprio and she wouldn't shut up about it. So I keep telling, oh, I told her at the time, I'm just like, hey, just shut up about him. And she's like, well, you get to see Kate Winslet naked.

I'm like. The thought crossed my mind, like, yeah, but I'd rather see Leo naked than her. So that was my sexual awakening.

Matt: 00:02:57

So that might be the first time he really knew he was gay, but not the first time he realized he was a little different than the other boys his age.

Brennon: 00:03:08

I'd say the first time I felt different was probably like a birthday party, like, first or second grade. I looked around, I'm just like, okay, I've invited, like, 10 girls and two guys. So I think my dad pointed that out.

He's like, he just hangs around girls all the time. And I think my dad thought, like, oh, good for him. Like, that's. That's good. But nope, it was actually the opposite.

Like, it just made better friends with girls because I was probably attracted to the guys. My dad's biggest fear for me was having a son be gay. He was very. He's working. He's getting a lot better at it. But he.

A couple years ago, he's very homophobic. So I think he was trying to recognize fears and then talk himself out of those fears. But, yeah, he recognized quite a few things of me growing up. He.

And so he would say things like, to try and steer me away from that, and. Nope, just still was gay.

Matt: 00:04:08

So that's a little intro to Brennon's dad right there. And also his family, I might want to add, was not the stereotypical Mormon family.

Brennon: 00:04:20

So my parents are separated, so I had stepmoms. I think my stepmom pointed out to my dad once, like, yeah, he's gonna be gay. My mom. My mom's not all there mentally.

She struggles with addiction and some mental illness things, so she's kind of just a lift to it all.

Matt: 00:04:40

One stepmom in particular for Brennon had a pretty active parenting role with him during those pivotal growing up years. And I feel like you either have the stepmom that's like, the cool one, like how Julia Roberts was in the movie Stepmom.

But, yeah, there's always the chance you don't get that.

Brennon: 00:04:56

So she grew up in San Francisco, so she was probably more accepting of it, but still very religious. But my. My childhood was kind of riddled with divorce and parents fighting and everything. So she was never an advocate for me.

She always advocated for her children and pushed their agenda. So it almost became like a fighting and contentious point, like, to use against my dad. Like, well, your kids, One of them's in drugs, one of them.

One of them is wearing inappropriate swimsuits, whatever, you know, growing up Mormon, and then one of them's probably gonna be gay.

Matt: 00:05:36

Love that. The Kid on drugs, the God forbid inappropriate bikini swimsuit, and of course, the gay kid. Which one of those has to actually be worried about?

If you don't say no to drugs, I invite you to look up the DARE program. If those even still exist anymore. By the way, Brennon did have the step siblings come and go, but he only really counts his two older brothers.

One younger sister. But did they know about his little secret?

Well, cute little teenage Brennon is growing up fast and doing those things teenage boys do, getting those feelings. And did he act upon them?

Brennon: 00:06:16

Um, I did act on those feelings. Um, it was always porn, right? Porn and that.

Matt: 00:06:25

se. And with porn in the late: 1990

Brennon: 00:06:37

Yep, Limewire. I'm sure I gave my computer, like, tons of viruses. Napster and then Bearshare was the other one that. And it took. I mean. I mean, heck, I'm 36.

So we had dial up back then, right? And it was slow. It was like 3 minutes to load an image or an hour to load a video. And you'd hope nobody would come home.

So, yep, Napster, Limewire, Bearshare.

Matt: 00:07:01

I loved me some illegal downloading on Napster and Limewire. Some Killer Mixburn CDs were made at the expense of the family computer. Rest in peace.

So Brennon's jerking his gherkin at home, but somebody else wants to get in on that sweet action.

Brennon: 00:07:17

In high school, there was one friend. Me and him kind of messed around a little bit. He's married now to a girl.

I still think he's gay, but it's very much like he approached it because I was so, like, in the closet and scared and not accepting who I am. Like, I knew I was gay, but there was always that hope, you know, that young gay kids have. Like, oh, maybe I'll be straight.

Maybe this is just a phase. I'll get out of it. But he came up to me and he's like, hey, like, said, a blowjob. Sounds fun. I'm like, yeah, it does, doesn't it?

Like, too bad there's no girls around. He's like, well, there's not, but you're around. So that happened in high school a couple times.

And the funny thing was, like, then I think he got, like, insecure about it.

And I was never going to say anything, but he started spreading rumors about me that I was gay to other people and that I was meeting up with, like, old men. And I think that was Kind of just to deter or, like, push attention somewhere else. I was just like, that's a stupid rumor.

And it never really affected me. It never really bothered me until, like, I was probably older. I'm like, that was pretty messed up.

Matt: 00:08:26

nservative Sandy, Utah, early: 2000

Brennon: 00:08:37

I remember I walked into the bathroom at Alta once, and there was a slip of paper on the floor, and it said, are you gay? At Alta. And then there was an email address on the back. And that, like, just stuck in my brain.

And I still remember it like, it was acidumbrellasomethin@gmail.com have no idea who it was. It was just like. But that was my first feeling. Like, oh, my gosh, there's someone else in this high school who's actually gay.

Matt: 00:09:02

And now at this point in high school, Brennon is really starting to struggle when it comes to his religious beliefs.

Brennon: 00:09:11

I can honestly look back and say I never really believed in it, but it was just a lifestyle and things that we had to do. Like, there was never a question, like, if I go on a mission.

Matt: 00:09:22

That mission he's talking about, it's a thing lots of Mormon boys and some girls do when they turn 18. Two years of their life teaching and baptizing new members around the world.

Brennon: 00:09:33

It was just very much ingrained in us.

But there was always those church lessons where I knew I was gay, so felt like I was going to hell or there was no hope, or maybe I can just pray the gay away. And I think the goal for me at an early age became like, oh, well, I have this.

But if I go on a mission and I do everything right and never break a rule, then God will bless me and I'll be straight. I'm sure that's like, a very common theme around Utah. And it's. It's hard because that's exactly what I did.

Matt: 00:10:06

He's right. The Mormon guilt can be rough. And what do you do when you feel guilt? Well, you go talk to somebody, like your ecclesiastical church leader about it.

Cause that's not creepy at all to go talk to some old man about your habit of shedding your snake and hooking up with a dude.

Brennon: 00:10:25

I went and confessed to the bishop, and he said. I remember him asking, he said, well, were you attracted to him? Are you gay? Or, like. And I said, like, I don't think I'm gay.

Like, it was fun, but I don't think I'm gay.

He's like, okay, good, because I know you like girls, and it Was almost like he wanted to sweep that under the rug really quickly and not have to deal with it.

Because I think it would have been a bigger headache for him to go through the whole interview process, find out if I'm actually gay, involve state president, and then probably disciplinary counsel because it was oral sex at that time. But no, he just swept it under the rug.

Matt: 00:11:06

Brennon was alone. Well, besides the bishop, that didn't appear to give a shit.

And you might think there had to have been a friend, somebody that knew he was gay in high school. A friend? Just one.

Brennon: 00:11:20

They wouldn't have a clue. They probably suspected at that time. But I never confided in anybody. It was always like my deep dark.

Matt: 00:11:29

Secret that I kept while high school is over. Brennon is now 18 years old and officially starting his adult life.

Brennon: 00:11:40

So I had a year between like graduating and going on a mission, just age wise. Cause we still went at 19 at that time, but so I just worked construction with my dad's company.

I actually built my first house, then took a loan from my dad, built a house and sold it, bought another one and then went on my mission and rented that out.

Matt: 00:12:01

The thing about Mormon missions, they are very structured. Like we're talking military boot camp on steroids.

And at one time so strict that you are completely leaving your own world behind that you've known your whole life for something brand new. It's a little bit scary, right? Terrifying. But what was Brennon's biggest fear?

Brennon: 00:12:23

That I'd have like a super hot companion and just have a crush on him and then that would become blatantly obvious to everybody. And it definitely had like an identity crisis pretty early on. Like, okay, this is me, I'm out here on a mission. Do I really believe it?

Because it's, it's not fun. Everyone says it's the best two years. No, it freaking sucked. It was the worst.

Like, but there was still that like naive and misguided hope in me that if I served a mission I would come home and be, be straight and everything.

Matt: 00:13:02

I guess let's see if that happens and talk some pros and cons about the mission. Let's start with the best part.

Brennon: 00:13:09

I served my mission in like on the east side of Puerto Rico and the rest of the Caribbean English speaking islands. So I was very like back and forth between islands. That was great. I lived in the Caribbean on, on islands for, for two years.

And the best part of that is like the mission president was somewhere else on a different island. So it was like us and like four other Missionaries on an island.

Matt: 00:13:34

But Brennon, such a troublemaker. Don't worry, he wasn't jerking it. He was getting in trouble. Get this.

Brennon: 00:13:42

Because I wouldn't proselyte as much I would. People were poor, they needed help. Like there was one lady that broke her leg and she just had a garden.

So we went over there like twice a week for a couple hours and like worked in her garden. That's how she made a living. And I remember getting a phone call like, you can't do that anymore. Like, you have to go. You're here to baptize people.

I'm like, I thought we were here to serve people.

Matt: 00:14:08

Baptisms is what the mission president wanted. Increase numbers on the members list. I mean, of course he did.

Brennon: 00:14:14

There's a lawyer, very Republican, and a brigadier general in the Air Force. So there was like, couldn't pull any shit past him or anything. And we clashed heads quite a few times.

Matt: 00:14:25

Brennon wondered if maybe some of the clashing was because the mission president suspected he was gay.

Brennon: 00:14:34

One day, one day some cops knocked on our door. I was living on Barbados. My companion had like a.

It was a PlayStation, like remote something so he could pick up Wi Fi if he went and sat in a certain place to message his girlfriend. But it also looked like he was holding a camera out to something. So the cops knocked on our door.

They're like, hey, you're taking pictures of place of people, so you have to stop doing that. And we showed him like, no, this is like just a device. He's picking up WI fi.

He's like, oh, and by the way, like, we know that you guys fuck in front of the windows and everything, so you can't do that or we're going to throw you in jail. So he got accused of like having gay sex in front of the windows as missionaries, which we weren't unfortunately.

Like, hindsight, that would have been cool, but we're definitely not doing that. But. But then they told other missionaries or they told our landlord and the landlord told the other missionaries.

So then we had to like go have interviews with our mission president and explain that, no, we're not having gay sex, we're not having anal in front of windows. Like, that's not the thing. And I think that was a turning point for me where I'm just like, I'm not having fun.

1 But I finished my mission, came home and realized it didn't work. I was still gay.

Matt: 00:15:56

And Brennon really was a good boy on his mission. Those hoping to hear a passionate gay love story that bloomed in the Caribbean. Sorry to disappoint.

Well, except for this minor slip up with one of his companions.

Brennon: 00:16:10

He is from American Samoa and he has like a very femme voice. He's great, he's like the nicest person, biggest heart.

But on, on the island everyone was kind of like conservative and nobody being gay was like not a thing. So they really had a problem like with the way he sounded, with the way like slurred his speech and everything. So like people mentioned him.

So I, we had conversations to get one point, at one point he walked in on me taking a nap and I think I had a hard on from just sleeping. And he's like oh wow, like you're big. I'm like I don't think so.

And anyway we compared dick sizes on, on the mission and that's about as gay as I got.

Matt: 00:16:57

I'll take it. There are about five missionaries though from his mission that have since come out that Brennon knows about.

And Brennon still stays in touch with the, this very gay companion.

Brennon: 00:17:07

He's great. He actually lives here in Salt Lake. I see him at Milk when I go. So I just told him how I can call him Elder and he slaps me for calling him Elder.

Matt: 00:17:17

So Brennon finishes his mission, restarts adult life, wondering what's going to happen next.

Brennon: 00:17:24

I came home. I owned a house up in Sugar House and our neighbors were gay. I lived with my sister. I went to LDS business college at the time.

Still in the, in the closet but watched the neighbors like they were like the first really like exposure that I had to a gay couple. I'm just like that, that seems like a dream. That, that's a dream that's not tangible for me. I don't know. And, but life kept going really fast.

Just working college. I ended up building a house in Lehigh, moved to Lehigh, got jumped in to like a singles ward down there.

Matt: 00:18:07

Basically just distracting himself. He was going to church with a bunch of single people that are all hoping to find their lifelong and eternal companion. Heterosexually of course.

Brennon: 00:18:20

And it was when I was, I went on a date with a girl who's actually like my sister in law's little sister. And she was like the most down to earth person. And so she's like hey, tell me like a secret. And I'm like well you go first.

And she's like oh well I've been drinking and doing all this stuff. And I'm like cool. I'm like I think I like guys. And that was it. She's like, you think or you're like, you like guys. And I'm just like, I think I do.

And she. She was cool about it. She's like, wow, I never really would have thought that from you.

She's like, but it makes sense, like, why you don't date girls or anything. And we never really talked about it after that. The next time I came out to anybody, like, was when I was working. I worked with my brother and we.

Building a house we were framing. We're both in construction. So just a cold, miserable day. And he freaked out at me for doing something wrong, so I kind of freaked out at him.

Then I walked away. I walked into, like, one of the houses we were building, started working in there, and I was just kind of ranting to myself.

You know how, like, you just angrily argue and you play both sides of that? So for some reason, like, he got after me and he was like, what?

When are you just gonna get married and have kids so my kids can have cousins and everything. So I walked into the house. I'm like, warren, I are going to get married. I'm not going to get married because I'm freaking gay, lj. Like, I'm. I'm gay.

I. I like guys. And he followed me in and heard this rant. And then I turned around and saw him and was like, oh, like, I. Oh, shit.

Like, my biggest secret's now out there to my brother. He just walked up, gave me a hug, and he's like, I understand. It's cool.

But that's when he wanted to get me into, like, hey, there's these therapists that you can try. Like, let's. There's conversion therapy, there's this, there's that. We all pay for it. Like, you know, my kids need cousins and everything.

Never took him up on therapy. It just became our secret. He told his wife and his wife, like, it was really, like, accepting and kind.

But I remember my brother said, he's like, you can never tell dad about this. You realize that, right? Like, he'll disown you. And then my stepmom, who my dad's still married to now my brother's like, she can't keep a secret.

And she will use it to, like, she'll just put it out there so that her kids, like, get a point up on the scale. And so that was it. Lots of depression, kept into the singles ward.

I mean, I was at that time, like, you know, it was porn and jerking off and everything. I did confess to a bishop once. I'm like, yeah, I think I'm gay. And I'm like, I was watching porn, jerking off, doing all this stuff.

So he took my temple recommend away and he's like, come meet me like next week. So I walked in there next week and he's like. And meeting him like this was like the second person I told.

And it was big for me, like telling an ecclesiastical leader that I'm gay and all this stuff. But yeah, somebody who has God's power, right, to do whatever. So it was a big, like it took a lot of effort for me to tell him that.

And then I felt like we had an okay conversation. Still very nervous about it. So he's like, well meet with me next week. So then I walked into his office next week and he's like, so what?

What are you here for? And he didn't remember anything. So. So I'm just like, I was jerking off and just never told him, like never brought it up again.

And he's like, oh well, well here's your temple recommend back. Just don't do it and go back.

Matt: 00:22:29

So Brennon has come out, probably felt a little bit better, but still has no clue how he's going to navigate the rest of his life.

Brennon: 00:22:39

I would travel every six months, make sure I had a good trip to avoid depression and just ready to live my life like single. And then there came a time when depression hit and I couldn't do it anymore. So I'm like, fuck it, I'm just moving somewhere.

And so a friend helped me, she's like, well you can go finish your degree in Hawaii, like church school. I'm like, ah, sure, let's do that. So I moved to Hawaii for a year and that was probably the most still at byu Hawaii, right?

But I had really good roommates, really good like friends there, made good friends. I got out of my comfort in Utah, went out there and it was really more of a self discovery journey.

Matt: 00:23:23

At the time Brennon probably didn't think he was making huge strides, but come on, look at it.

He'd seen that gay couple next door and thought, yeah, I want that someday he'd finally come out to his closest brother, even if he didn't quite mean to. And then there was the bishop. That one took guts. Only to have the bishop forget the whole thing by the very next week. And this one was huge.

He got out of the Utah bubble long enough to reset.

Brennon: 00:23:50

And then when I came home, that's when I'm like, hey, I'm just gonna live my own life. And slowly started to date. Came out to one friend who's like, I think both of us were, like, kind of feeling depressed. It was New Year's Eve.

We went on a drive, and he's like, so I'm gay. I'm like, oh, yeah, me too. Didn't really date, but we had, like, so many conversations. Started making out, doing that stuff. And he's a great guy.

He was going through some stuff too. I was going through some stuff. So we kind of just parted ways. And then that just started rolling the ball of coming out to people.

And the best thing about coming out is, like, when you come out and you start living your true, authentic self, you feel like there's power in that.

And then to have people who you care about, who your friendship or who you share, like, you know, part of your life with, for them to accept who you truly are, and then for you to be honest, there's so much power and then vulnerability in that.

Matt: 00:24:56

That sense of power kept growing. But the hardest conversation, the one his brother had already warned him wouldn't be easy, was still waiting.

Brennon: 00:25:07

I was able to come out to my dad. He's like, okay. Like, I know, but if you start dating a guy, we're gonna have issues. So I'm like, okay, well, now, you know, it's out there.

And I was dating guys at that time. I just didn't let him know how much.

Matt: 00:25:25

Okay, enough with the dad drama. Believe it or not, there's more of that later. So we need a little break. Let's get back to the fun stuff. So enter the gay waiter.

Brennon: 00:25:37

And then there was. I was working with somebody, got a second job, like, at a restaurant at night.

One of the waiters was gay, so started hanging out with him, told him, like, pretty much just said, like, hey, we should go cuddle during the movie. Then we dated, and I was. It was that, like, so exciting to be dating like, that. Everyone goes through that.

Probably, like, turns off people who have actually been dating. So that didn't work out well.

Matt: 00:26:14

Boo. I was rooting for the gay waiter and some hot backup restaurant sex after closing. But no, instead, it was time for [grindr sound].

Brennon: 00:26:24

And then a friend told me. She's like, hey, like, just, there's apps, you know? I'm like, really? Oh, my gosh. I was so stupid. She's like, yeah.

Like, you know, there's an app for gays. She's like, it's called Grindr, and you can download it. I'm just like, well, like, what is it? And she's like, well, it's like a hookup app.

Like, I'm Just like, well, what if I, like, don't want to hook up, but I want to date? Like, I'm not sure if I'm ready to, like, go hook up. And she's like, then Tinder. Like, and then you can select guys.

So I had never been on any dating apps, right? Like, no, I was. So I got on Tinder and then I looked through, like, a bunch of profiles to see, like, okay, what kind of pictures people post.

And yeah, unbeknownst to me, like, I put pictures up there and then my friend goes through it and she's like, why are you putting. Posting, like, thirst traps? I'm like, what's a thirst trap? And she's like, oh, my God, you are so dumb. But I got a lot of dates on Tinder.

Matt: 00:27:25

Mm, I bet you did, you naive, innocent little thirst trap.

Brennon: 00:27:31

Yeah, so she had explained, like, what a thirst trap photo was for me, and I was just, like, just ignorant of the whole thing. Just. It's embarrassing now to think back on it, but got a bunch of dates from that, started dating, like, a bunch of guys.

Kind of started dating two guys at the same time. I liked one of them, but the other one was like, I don't want to fall for this guy really hard, so I'll kind of keep this guy on the back burner.

And that learned a lot about dating really fast. I thought I knew what I wanted. I didn't.

Matt: 00:28:04

Brennon was looking for the one I.

Brennon: 00:28:07

Thought I knew, like, the type of personality I'd connect with, the type of guy I would be attracted to. Professional, down to earth, just carrying, like, hopes and dreams of, like, an innocent person, right?

Like, oh, they're gonna be good looking and professional and have a job. That and everything. But really, I just discovered that, like, all of us are just human and nobody has all the answers. Nobody is the package deal.

Matt: 00:28:37

Turns out Prince Charming wasn't waiting on Tinder. What Brennon found instead, well, let's just say the V word was still very much on the table.

Brennon: 00:28:48

The other thing too is, like, I was still very nervous. Like, I would still like a virgin at that time when I got on Tinder. And so I'm like, I'm not ready to, like, go hook up, like, or do all this stuff.

So I just want someone to kind of take it slow.

I want someone who wants a relationship and not, you know, like, there's people out there who play the field, and I just want somebody who would respect boundaries, slowly, like, develop a relationship. And I guess that's what I mean by that's. Why I discovered it doesn't happen. Like, no, it's. You're expected to kind of, like, put out pretty quick.

Matt: 00:29:29

Ain't that the truth. Because let's be real. Waiting for slow and respectful in the dating world is already a stretch nowadays.

But coming out of Mormonism, that made it feel almost impossible.

Brennon: 00:29:43

Leaving Mormonism, I thought like, oh, well, it's still Utah, so. And there's other gay Mormons and everything. So I thought this would be a path that I could take. But it really wasn't that way.

And I learned that pretty fast. And I remember getting mad at myself. I'm just like, Holy shit. I'm 27 now and I'm experiencing things that people experience at 16 or 13 or 14 or.

Or whatever. Like, I had a niece that was 13 who was going through the same stuff I was experiencing. And I just. It was.

It was hard because I'm like, well, did I really just miss out on my 20s?

Matt: 00:30:19

No, Brennon, absolutely not. You're still just a baby gay. But then somebody went ahead and floored it.

Brennon: 00:30:28

Lost my virginity pretty fast, I think, and I was totally fine with it. I think it was like a second date. And, I mean, the guy was pushy, but I was attracted to him and it was a hot, fun new experience and everything.

I remember driving home after, I'm just like, you know, I'm kind of glad that's over with. Like, it doesn't need to be a special thing anymore.

And it's kind of a lie that, you know, church taught me or growing up in Utah, that has to be some special event. Like, no. Sex became more enjoyable as time went on. And that's when, like, deeper connections happened and everything.

It wasn't some immaculate first time or anything, actually.

Matt: 00:31:13

Let's talk a little bit more about that first time, shall we? Brennon, 27 years old, dating two guys at once, and somehow still the most naive person in the room.

Brennon: 00:31:26

I'm so new to this. I'm like, they're asking me on a date. So I kind of just took the submissive role more than anything. And yeah, it was second date with.

With one guy that I met on tind. They ever find out, they'll be, like, upset. But so I was dating those two guys, right? And it was the guy that I wasn't really attracted to.

I was attracted to him, but, like, I just felt like the connection with the other guy was. Was a lot better.

Matt: 00:32:04

Yeah, yeah, we get it. One guy was hotter, but of course, this story is about the other one.

Brennon: 00:32:10

But it was our second date. He's like, hey, let's go back to my place and watch a movie. Me still being naive. I thought, like, that actually meant a movie. But nope.

It was quickly, like, moved to the bedroom, and then it was making out, getting naked, oral and everything. And I was just like, hey, I've never. I'm still a virgin. Like, I've never done this. He's like, it's okay. Like, we don't have to do anything.

And it was very much like a. He went behind me, and that was it. Like, I'm like, oh, okay. Like, all right. Like, we're doing this. And it was great.

It felt fine, but there was no really connection there.

Matt: 00:32:53

And here's where my romantics in the audience finally get your moment. Buckle up, because what comes next isn't about sex at all. It's all about the first time Brennon actually felt something real.

Brennon: 00:33:08

And I went on a date with the other guy that there was more connection with. And there was a very pivotal point is when I. We were cuddling on a couch, and I was like, the turning point the first time.

Like, I was little spoon, and it was like this tingling all over my body, and it was because he was holding me, and I never experienced that with a girl. It was hard to hold hands. It was hard to try and kiss a girl. Oh, my gosh. It was, like, mental anxiety trying to figure out how to do it.

But the second he held me and I felt that tingling, like, oh, this is different. This is something I now have to seek in my life and feel because this is. This feels so natural. This is. It's. It's. It's pure.

Matt: 00:34:06

If that didn't hit you in the feels, you're definitely a Scorpio like me. You felt it. You're just pretending you didn't. Anyway, enough SAP time for Brennon to go sleep with guy number two.

Brennon: 00:34:17

So much more like of a gentleman and respecting boundaries. He's like, oh, my gosh. I really want to do this, but, like, I don't want to pressure you. I'm like, nope, I'm cool.

Like, he still thought I was a virgin. He didn't know. Like, this happened two days ago. So I'm just like, I guess, like, we're cool.

But that experience had bottomed again, completely different. Like, the chemistry was there. Everything was there. I'm just like, yeah, this is awesome.

And then maybe, like, two more times after that, when I talk for the first time, I'm like, oh, this is kind of best of both worlds. And so that's kind of how I found out I was first.

Matt: 00:34:52

So, yes, with guy number two, the chemistry clicked, the boundaries were respected, and Brennon discovered. Surprise. He was verse cute, right? But wait, wait, wait. We left something out, because that first time with guy number one, yeah.

It came with a complimentary side of gay panic.

Brennon: 00:35:10

I did have, like, a little panic attack because I'm just like, oh, my gosh. Like, I don't know. Like, did we use a condom? I don't think he. I don't think he used a condom. Like, and then, like, all that fear came.

So I went and talked to my friend who. The one who told me about Tinder and everything. And she's like, oh, sweetie, like, we just need to educate you.

So she pretty much took me to Planned parenthood. Like, she's like, hey, well, you know, this is now. Now this becomes, like, a regular thing for you. And then there's.

This is what prep is, and this is what everything is. Like, I didn't know anything, but thank God for good friends.

Matt: 00:35:47

And the title she's earned in this story. Well, Brennon says it best.

Brennon: 00:35:50

She's my ride or die. She's incredible. She's amazing. She's also, like, one of the wittiest and funniest people you'll ever meet.

So she probably, like, lean in and she's like, have you ever seen a train crash? Like, she's like, that's what it was like.

Matt: 00:36:07

Watching honestly, fair, watching Brennon step into gay dating really did have a bit of a can't look away energy.

Brennon: 00:36:15

That's probably exactly how she would describe it. She's like this little ratchet.

Matt: 00:36:18

Ratchet, sure. But she'd also be the first to tell you it wasn't all jokes.

Brennon: 00:36:24

She would probably say, like, it was scary because, like, she had to talk me through, like, dating, talk me through breakups, talk me through heartache, and talk me through all this stuff. And the thing is, she had to go research this on her own to be able to tell me this stuff.

So, like, talk about, like, a good friend who's just like, has your back no matter what.

Matt: 00:36:45

Yeah, that's bestie gold. Loyal, hilarious, and somehow your unpaid life coach. And where did fate throw them together? Oh, only the most ironic place possible.

Brennon: 00:37:02

Um, we met at a singles ward. It was like some singles dance, and the music was super crappy inside, so we're like, hey, let's. Let's leave. And this was the first night I met her.

Like, just a friend of a friend. She went into this church parking Lot. She, like, blasted music. I don't know. It's probably like Nicki Minaj or something.

And she's like, hey, you see that cement ball right there? Go dance on it. So I climbed the Smith wall and started twerking on the wall. And, like, she blasted the music.

And, like, ever since that moment, like, her music, my twerking best friends. And she had just moved to the area too, so that was one of the first people I came out with. Like, she was having a really bad day.

So she's like, hey, what are you doing? I'm like, I am working in this house for this guy who lives out of town. Like, he can come over and just like. She's like, yeah, can we just chat?

And then I really didn't know her very well before that, but she's like, so why aren't you dating? I'm just like, oh, well, I'm gay. And it was easy to tell her because we had no history or anything. It was just. And she's like, that's. That's awesome.

So that was, like, the first person I really came out to. I have another good friend. He was like, my other ride or die that it took me forever to come out to because we had so much history together.

Like, we've been, like, such good friends for so long. But both of them just accepted me without any. Any issues.

Matt: 00:38:38

Brennon is living life, ready to find that life partner and future husband and like, most modern love stories.

Brennon: 00:38:47

So we met on Tinder. I actually remember, like, remember I saw him on Tinder like, in January or something. And I swiped right, and nothing ever happened.

Like, never messaged each other. I think I said hey or something, but nothing. And he looked familiar, but I'm also just like, that's a cute guy.

But then I dated some other guys, dated some crazy people. Came, like, got to the point of just, like, six months after dating. Like, just bad dates and everything.

Like, I told my friend, I said, like, I think I'm gonna, like, just not date for a minute.

Matt: 00:39:29

Yeah, let's cue the trusted confidant best friend now.

Brennon: 00:39:33

She's like, you realize that, like, you're the normal one out of all these people. She's like, I met some of them. You're the normal one. Like, just keep going. Keep dating. So then I swiped right Brian's picture came up again.

Swiped right on it. And we started chatting. We chatted maybe for, like, a good day and, like, a day or two.

And then I went to a Bees game with a friend, and sitting there like, chatting with Ryan, and we just made the connection that both of us went to the same high school. He was a year younger than me, so I was making, like, mutual connections. Like, hey, did you know this person? Did you know this person?

And, like, low key. I was judging him based off, like, he was hanging out with. I'm like, oh, really? You hung out with her? Like, okay, whatever. But.

But then the friend I was with, he's like, hey, who are you chatting with? So I show him a picture, and he's like, oh, Ryan. He's like, oh, like, jeremy, tell me that you didn't, like, sleep with Ryan or something.

He's like, no, no. He's like, but I was neighbors with him and his ex. I'm like, okay. He's like, so what do you want to know about Ryan?

I'm just like, is he a good person? Like, am I going to end up, like, a body in a bag somewhere or. And he's like, no, Ryan's a good guy. And.

And then Ryan messages me, and he's like, hey, are you with Jeremy? And I'm like, yeah, we're at a Bees game. And he's like, jeremy just sent me this text, like, brian, don't this up. He's a good guy. So then.

Then we went on a first date, and it was a great date. I was pretty naive to it because we met at Thanksgiving Point. I lived at. So, like, at the ice cream shop there.

I lived at Thanksgiving Point near the golf course, and he was. He came down from Salt Lake.

So we're sitting there chatting, just having a good talk, and Ryan kept, like, bringing up my dog, and I was not getting the hint. He's like, so you have a dog? I'm like, yeah. He's like, what's your dog doing right now? I'm like, she's just at home.

He's like, and your home's, like, right there, right? I'm like, yeah, yeah. It's just right there, like. And I continued talking. He's like, so, does your dog get lonely?

And I'm just like, I mean, she can be alone for a little while. And then it just hit. I'm like, do you want to go meet her or something? Like. He's like, yeah, like, invite me back. So I'm like, okay, like, come.

Come to my house. We didn't do anything. Well, we made out. He met my dog. And I'm like, you came over here to meet my dog, so you have to meet my dog.

She loved him instantly, which is you Know, green light. And then we ended up making out. I remember stopping him. I'm just like, oh, you're a good kisser. Thank God. Like, just stream of bad, bad dates.

Like, bad kissers as well. And so that was our first date. And then I went backpacking for two weeks after that. Just let him.

And I told him just like, so I'm gonna be out of like cell phone service for a while. I don't think he understood that, like, I was actually doing that. So I went backpacking.

Matt: 00:42:54

Two weeks. Backpacking, Please. That's just pre scheduled ghosting.

Brennon: 00:43:00

We had our second date. He cooked dinner. And yeah, something about like just dating Ryan felt completely different than other dates. And that's, I think when.

That's when I had to come out to my dad the second time because I'm like, okay, this. This one feels different. This one feels like it's going to be long term.

Matt: 00:43:25

The first time you say it. You hope it'll be enough. But sometimes life demands a repeat performance. And when the stage is family, dad.

The second act can carry a different kind of weight. Sharper, heavier, and a lot more complicated.

Brennon: 00:43:48

I came out to him a second time. I'm like, hey, I am dating a guy. And he's like, okay, so you choose to be gay? I'm like, no, I'm gay. And he's like, no, it's a choice to be gay.

I'm like, okay, well, you believe that. But, dad, I'm gay and I'm dating a guy, and he's a good guy. And he's like, all right, well, my dad had three pages written out.

And he's like, I knew you were gonna come out. I've had people watching you. I'm like, what does that mean? Like cousins or something? I don't like.

And he had three pages, and it was like a contract of how our life was going to proceed forward now that I was openly gay and dating. And there was like, section of like, what's going on with you right now? It's like light of crisis left your eyes.

Like, you're drinking, you're doing drugs, you're doing this, you're spiraling. I'm like, I'm not drinking. I'm not doing drugs. Maybe I'll start drinking after this, dad. And then, then there was like a.

You are pretty much disinherited. Your welcome to family events. No partners. Welcome to family events. Like, no partner can be around my grandchildren.

And then he's like, oh, and you're probably gonna end up dancing in Your underwear on a pride float, and you're gonna get aids, and so just so, like, cool dad, like, you don't know. And then my stepmom told everybody after that. So everybody knew I was giving calls for everybody.

Like, and it was funny because, like, when I came out to people, I was able to tell my story. They were able to see me, and it was positive. But then when everybody else knew because of my stepmom, like, that's when people were.

That's when I faced, like, a lot of rejection from family and stuff like that.

Matt: 00:45:40

Okay, so family tension on one side, romance on the other. And what do Brennon and Ryan decide to do? Test their relationship with blueprints. Oh, no. They couldn't be like any other relationship.

And test the strength with building IKEA furniture together that wasn't big enough.

Brennon: 00:46:00

The hardest part of our relationship was he was trying to build a house. Maybe four months after we started dating. He's like, so living in an apartment right now. I kind of want to find a house. Who is.

He was looking at houses, and then he found a lot, and he was like, so, I want to build a house. He's like, will you help me design it? We designed this house using, like, an architect and everything. Ryan definitely took the lead on it.

I was like, just suggestions here and there. But then came, like, the point of, like, ryan needs to find a contractor, and I'm a contractor.

So I was very careful, like, to navigate this saying, like, I don't want to be your contractor because we're dating, because if we stop dating, you're stuck with me. So Ryan was, like, interviewing some contractors, and they would walk away. I'm just like, that guy was an idiot.

Like, and it wasn't anything like, they were just bad contractors. There's really good contractors out there. I told Ryan, like, you could probably do this your own, and I'd be willing to help you. So then it.

Then we had this city issue or something where the guy next to him built this house wrong. So we had to, like, go to the city and work in it, work out everything. And that's.

Ryan came to me after that, and he's like, okay, so you're going to be my contractor, and, you know, I'll pay you, like, monthly to do this. Like, it won't be one lump sum, and if we end up breaking up, like, you know, I can hire someone to finish.

But we made it through the build of the house, which was great. Our relationship only got stronger. Ryan brags that he can fuck his contractors. Now. And I guess I can say I fuck some of my clients.

Matt: 00:47:53

Girl, say what? OSHA should have shut that site right down. Too much raw drilling and not enough protection.

Brennon: 00:48:03

And, yeah, then lived in that house for a little bit. Ryan did propose and sold that house, remodeled this house.

So we've been through a build and a remodel, which they say is like the two hardest things in a relationship.

Matt: 00:48:23

Okay, so they've survived a remodel without breaking up. Miracle status, I might add. But Brennon's next confession on that first date, it wasn't about backsplash. It was about babies.

Brennon: 00:48:39

Our first date, I remember, like, I told Ryan, I'm like, I guess I'm kind of like a traditional person. Like, I want, want kids. I want, I want to be a dad. Like, that's my biggest dream. And he's like, oh, okay.

Like, I don't think he was really open to it at first. And then as the real relationship came, I think he'll tell people. Like, so I got to know Brennon. Like, he'll tell people.

He's like, I was against marriage until I met Brennon. And then with Brennon's goal of having kids and having a family and everything, like Ryan's, Ryan now wants that.

So now he's changed his thought process on marriage and he's the one that proposed. And so he definitely, like, he very much wants to be a dad. I definitely want to be a dad. That's a dream, I think, for Ryan.

He never thought it would be possible to find somebody who would be willing to be like a stay at home dad or be willing to sacrifice their career and do everything for the kids. And that's where it's really good with Ryan and I. Like, Ryan has a great career. He's very motivated that way.

But with the both of us, we can achieve these dreams. Like, I can put my career on hold and raise kids until they're old enough, and then I can go back to work.

Matt: 00:50:09

Brennon's dream of becoming a dad only grew stronger as the relationship with Ryan deepened. But with dreams like that come the harder questions. The ones about what it really takes to raise a family and who to involve.

Brennon: 00:50:27

The one fear that I have, and Ryan and I have talked about this quite a bit, I'm sure it's like every kind of gay individual or gay couple has to deal with this is like, who do you allow to be part of, like, your inner circle as you raise this kid? Because it takes a community to raise a kid. But, like, is it going to be safe? Like, I Don't.

I don't want my stepmom to be involved in raising my kid at all because she's still homophobic. She's, she still asks questions like, well, who's going to be the motherly influence? And it's like, well, you know what? Like, I'm nurturing enough.

Like if you meet me, I'm pretty darn, like empathetic, sympathetic. I can nurture and I can have my sister. I have my sister in law, like great things.

But I know if my stepmom's babysitting that she's going to make a comment like, well, you just need a mom at some point and that will be the end of any relationship. Like, I will cut it off. And I'm also kind of. My dad is telling me like, yeah, I can't wait to take your kids to church.

It's like, well, dad, like, you're not going to do that. Sorry.

So it's the fear of like, who's going to support us rather than say things that to our kids that make them feel less than because they have two dads. So that's what, that's where the fear comes in.

It's like, it's the community, it's protecting the kids because I don't want them to feel shame about having two dads.

Matt: 00:52:01

And that's what makes Brennon's story stand out and also what makes it so familiar. Because gay stories aren't just about coming out or dating or even dreaming about kids.

They're about the mix of hope and fear, of wanting something better than what came before and building a life you can finally call your own. That's the heart of Bright Brennon's story. And it's the reason we tell gay stories at all.

Brennon: 00:52:34

Ever since I was a kid, I wanted a safe home. I wanted like, I wanted a normal mom. I wanted, I wanted a dad who would care, would be accepting and everything.

And so maybe there's part of it that does just want to create a home in an environment where like, you can actually have a proper family and everything. When people ask me why I want kids, like, I want, I want to experience what it's like to be with dad, what it's like to.

I know parents hate it and talk about like the lame recitals that they have to go to and all the school plays and everything, like that just sounds fun to me. My biggest dream right now would be to take my kid and teach him how to ski up on the bunny hill.

I think there is something about creating a home that I didn't have. And that will go into, like. You know, why I've gone to therapy making sure this generational trauma doesn't pass on to the next generation.

I want to be the best parent I can be.